Interview with Mike Farrell, Ben Jones
Alan Colmes, Sean Hannity
Hannity & Colmes (Fox News Network)

HANNITY: As we continue on HANNITY & COLMES, I'm Sean Hannity. Still to come, an anti-war protestor who thinks that just getting naked is sort of your way to get your message heard. You're going to meet her tonight. But first, singer Sheryl Crow made her anti-war sentiments heard at last night's "American Music Awards."

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SHERYL CROW, SINGER: I know this is an awards show, but I just want to encourage everybody to get involved in some kind of movement for peace.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HANNITY: She's one of a growing number of celebrities who are protesting possible war with Iraq, including Martin Sheen, Kim Basinger, Sean Penn. Joining us from Washington, former congressman, our good friend, former star of the "Dukes Of Hazzard," Ben Jones. And from Los Angeles, former "MASH" star, my favorite Hollywood liberal, Mike Farrell...

MIKE FARRELL, ARTISTS UNTIED TO WIN WITHOUT WAR: I'm sure.

HANNITY: ... who's the organizer of Artists United to Win Without War, a group that recently released a letter expressing their opposition to a preemptive strike against Iraq. Let me just read more of what Sheryl Crow said last night. She said, "I think war is based on greed. And there's huge karmic retributions that will follow. I think war is never the answer to solving problems. The best way to solve problems is not to have enemies." Mike Farrell, Nazi Germany, imperial Japan, Hitler, Tojo, Mussolini, Pol Pot? We're supposed to be friends and to be engaged in an act of war against them is wrong?

FARRELL: Oh, come on, you know...

HANNITY: That's what she said.

FARRELL: Sheryl Crow -- well fine, she expressed her opinion. And she certainly deserves to be able to express her opinion. I think that the ideas that she expressed or the ideals she expressed are something we all ought to be working toward.

HANNITY: I agree with that, but you know some -- there are certain evils. Somebody breaks into your house, Mike Farrell, I'm going to guess...

FARRELL: Yes, I have no argument.

HANNITY: No argument.

FARRELL: I don't -- I'm not against self-defense. I'm against pre- emptive strikes. I'm against the kind of arrogance that we're seeing demonstrated here by the United States government.

HANNITY: This isn't about a preemptive strike. This is -- in Iraq, we're not preemptive. This is the continuation of war...

FARRELL: We are threatening.

HANNITY: We were at war with Iraq. And he did not abide by the cease-fire agreement. He's been given more than an ample opportunity, 11- plus years.

FARRELL: Eleven plus years to do what?

HANNITY: To abide by the cease-fire agreement and the U.N. sanctions and the U.N. resolutions.

FARRELL: And you're suggesting that we have been at war all this time?

HANNITY: I am suggesting that we should have been. We should have enforced...

FARRELL: Aha.

HANNITY: We should have enforced -- and Clinton did when he needed to distract from Monica Lewinsky -- but we should have enforced the cease-fire agreement. And we should have enforced the U.N. resolutions. And Bush gave him another opportunity. And he's lying to the world because we all know he has the weapons of mass destruction he denies he has.

FARRELL: Well, forgive me, we don't all know that. The inspectors who are on the ground there don't know that. The -- there is no evidence that has been demonstrated that shows that they have those weapons.

HANNITY: No, I interviewed Bill Tierny (ph). He was there in August of '98. U.N. inspector, I interviewed him on my radio show today.

FARRELL: Right, right.

HANNITY: He said it is undeniable. He saw these weapons with his own eyes. And they weren't chronicled in the...

FARRELL: Does that mean that Hans Blix is being somehow gulled by the leadership of Iraq today?

HANNITY: The same Hans Blix who when he was head of the IAEA, gave Saddam a clean bill of health for the entire time. And then when we found out when we got in there during the Persian Gulf he was wrong on every account.

FARRELL: Well, that was then. This is now. He's there. He's leading the U.N...

HANNITY: He's incompetent now.

FARRELL: He's incompetent, OK. What about Al Moriarty (ph)?

HANNITY: I think he is.

FARRELL: What about Mr. Al Moriarty?

HANNITY: Well, look, I interviewed Bill Tierny (ph). Bill Tierny, U.N. weapons inspector. I've interviewed...

FARRELL: Have you interviewed Scott Ritter?

HANNITY: ... Dr. Hamza. Yes, I have on this program.

FARRELL: You have, OK.

HANNITY: I've interviewed Dr. Hamza, who ran his nuclear program for 25 years.

FARRELL: Right.

HANNITY: If you think -- well let me ask one last question, then we'll bring Ben Cooter in. If you're wrong, the man that killed the million and a half Muslims, the man that used chemical weapons against his own people, if he gets nuclear weapons, what do you think will happen to the world? What do you think he'll do with them?

FARRELL: I don't know. I'm not -- I don't care to try to predict the future. What I would suggest to you, as I have suggested to you before, I think Saddam Hussein is a war criminal. And I believe he deserves to be brought before a tribunal, and tried, and if possible imprisoned somewhere. Best case we can probably negotiate today is to get him out of that country and into exile somewhere. But that's if we use the good offices of our country in a manner that we should and could use them. As we seem to be trying to do with Korea, North Korea today.

COLMES: Let me...

FARRELL: But this business of shaking our missiles, and threatening an invasion, and alienating hundreds of millions of people unnecessarily is utterly inappropriate and in the wrong use of...

COLMES: ... Mike, it's Alan. Let me get Ben in here. Ben, welcome. Welcome to both of you.

FARRELL: Sure.

COLMES: Ben, why does it drive the right so crazy when you have like a Sheryl Crow making a statement -- I know it's awards ceremony. Some people say that's not an appropriate venue. But they seem to go nuts whenever -- and they use the phrase "Hollywood liberal" as if it's some kind of pejorative. Why does it drive them so crazy?

BEN JONES, FMR. CONGRESSMAN: Well, I don't know. I know that, you know, it probably works both ways. So Alan, when I see Chuck Heston waving his gun around, and you know, that probably drives people on the left a little nuts, too.

COLMES: That's right. But it works both ways, right? I mean...

JONES: Well, you know, of course it works both ways.

COLMES: Yes.

JONES: We're just arguing policy here. And people are passionate about it.

COLMES: Yes.

JONES: We're talking about life and death here and the future of the planet. So I think it's great that people get passionate about it.

COLMES: I applaud Sheryl Crow for (UNINTELLIGIBLE.)

JONES: And those folks who react to it.

COLMES: I applaud Sheryl Crow for being outspoken, even whether you agree with her or not.

JONES: You know, look, Sean's a good Catholic boy. The pope said the same thing the other day.

COLMES: Right, right.

JONES: War is not the answer. You know, President Bush's favorite philosopher, that carpenter from Nazareth said the same thing.

COLMES: Right, you know...

JONES: We should be looking for alternatives, but Mike Farrell hit on it. There has to be regime change. And I think all of the civilized world agrees with that.

COLMES: All right the key question here...

JONES: But what we're talking about is the most prudent way to achieve it.

COLMES: Ben, the question here is, you know, I don't mind us engineering socially getting countries together, as Arab countries are now doing. It seems like a bunch of Arab leaders are discussing whether or not they will try to convince -- and an envoy from Iraq is allegedly going to have that conversation in the Arab world this weekend. That is the way to do it. But this idea of a full-scale war...

JONES: Alan, let me interrupt here.

COLMES: Yes, sir.

JONES: None of this would be happening without the possibility of that military strike, and without the pressure which we have brought upon Iraq. Now I was a hawk 10 years ago. I supported Desert Storm, thought we should have finished the job then. And I think we are talking, as Sean said, about unfinished business...

COLMES: Right.

JONES: ... and a man who has thumbed his nose at a surrender agreement.

COLMES: If you're going to say this is not a preemptive strike...

FARRELL: (UNINTELLIGIBLE)

COLMES: Let me just get this out, then we'll go to Mike Farrell. If you're going to say that, and that this is a continuation of a war that started then, are you then not saying that George Bush 41 didn't do the right thing when he...

JONES: No, he did not do the right thing. In my opinion he did not.

And he left tens of thousands of people who died expecting help, which never came.

COLMES: Let's give Mike Farrell a chance to respond. Go ahead.

FARRELL: Yes, I'd just like to make the point, Ben. You said this would -- what's happening or what we want to have happen perhaps in Iraq will never happen without the imposition of the troops that we have put into the region. What do you think's going to happen in North Korea? And how is it that we're having the results we apparently are intending to have without the imposition of all the troops that we insist are necessary in the Middle East?

JONES: Well, I think the difference is the fact that North Korea has nuclear weapons and has a guy who's even crazier than Saddam Hussein and might use them. We are trying to prevent Saddam from achieving that.

FARRELL: So it's appropriate to go to war when we think a man has nuclear weapons, but we don't want to attack somebody who we believe does have nuclear weapons?

JONES: No, I didn't say it was appropriate to go to war. I said that military pressure obviously has to be brought against Saddam. He's not just going to say bye, you all, and go to Sweden or something. This is the guy...

FARRELL: Well, I think...

JONES: Pardon?

FARRELL: I think -- I'm sorry. I think in fact that there have been many suggestions made that there are incremental steps that could be taken through the international community to bring the same kind of pressure on Saddam Hussein...

JONES: Absolutely, no...

FARRELL: ... that we have not chosen to utilize.

JONES: Remember -- hey Mike, remember 10 years ago when the Democratic party -- of which I'm a member -- was talking about sanctions? This was after the guy had rolled across an international border and taken over another country. HANNITY: All right, we...

JONES: Would those sanctions have worked? No, laughable.

HANNITY: I tell you what, gentlemen...

JONES: You have to put pressure on this guy.

HANNITY: We're just out time, but both of you will be on my radio show tomorrow. So we'll pick it up.

JONES: Sure.

HANNITY: We'll have an hour to debate this, right? Well, Mike, we'll see you tomorrow.

JONES: Sure, I thought we were going to talk about Sheryl Crow. She's wonderful.

HANNITY: Oh, stop it.

FARRELL: She's great, isn't she great? And you know, I was particularly impressed, Sean if I might, to see the fact that you were one of the people in that picture of nude bodies. Only I thought you were taller.

(LAUGHTER) HANNITY: That was Colmes.

COLMES: There go the ratings.

HANNITY: That was Colmes, I swear.

COLMES: You don't want to see that, either one. You don't want to see it. Take it easy, guys.

HANNITY: We'll see you both on my radio tomorrow. All right, thank you both. And coming up, I bet you never thought the day would come when we'd be showing pictures of 100 naked liberal women on the show, but they're getting naked...

COLMES: There you are.

HANNITY: ... to protest the war. There's Alan in the middle. Straight ahead.

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